Different Views of Christians and Pagans...
"I think the very different world views of Christians and Pagans needs to be
appreciated and respected. We do believe in one God, one truth, and one way to
Heaven. That alone makes us "intolerant" in the eyes of many pagans, but it's a
basic theological difference."
I would certainly agree that our different views need to be respected. But I'm personally not convinced that our beliefs are really so different. For example, most Wiccans and Pagans believe in ONE true power, (sometimes just referred to as The One), that is represented by both masculine and feminine aspects of the Divine. As you mentioned, Christians believe in one God ... but isn't this God represented by both the Son and the Holy Spirit?
In the Bible the Holy Spirit is referred to in masculine terms, but God's children are said to be BORN of the Holy Spirit, and this personification of God held the traditional feminine role of providing his children with guidance ... teaching and comforting them as they grew. Interestingly enough, the original texts of the Bible NEVER referred to the Holly Spirit in masculine terms, like we do today.
As for multiple gods ... Christians often seek help from "angels", while Pagans tend to ask the "lesser gods" for guidance. We use different words to describe our actions. Is THIS what makes us wrong in your eyes? Isn't this like saying that someone who speaks another language is wrong because they have described a person or thing using different words? I prefer to think we are all following the same God, but are using different "spiritual languages" to describe our beliefs!
I would certainly agree that our different views need to be respected. But I'm personally not convinced that our beliefs are really so different. For example, most Wiccans and Pagans believe in ONE true power, (sometimes just referred to as The One), that is represented by both masculine and feminine aspects of the Divine. As you mentioned, Christians believe in one God ... but isn't this God represented by both the Son and the Holy Spirit?
In the Bible the Holy Spirit is referred to in masculine terms, but God's children are said to be BORN of the Holy Spirit, and this personification of God held the traditional feminine role of providing his children with guidance ... teaching and comforting them as they grew. Interestingly enough, the original texts of the Bible NEVER referred to the Holly Spirit in masculine terms, like we do today.
As for multiple gods ... Christians often seek help from "angels", while Pagans tend to ask the "lesser gods" for guidance. We use different words to describe our actions. Is THIS what makes us wrong in your eyes? Isn't this like saying that someone who speaks another language is wrong because they have described a person or thing using different words? I prefer to think we are all following the same God, but are using different "spiritual languages" to describe our beliefs!
Posted by Kardia at 2/26/2010 1:39 PM 
Categories: The Christian Witch
Tags: Pagan and Christians beliefs
Categories: The Christian Witch
Tags: Pagan and Christians beliefs
I couldn't agree more with you Kardia. I also believe all the gods represented in every culture are part of one higher force. The problem comes, and it mostly does from Xians, when the person believes his or her faith is the only correct one, and attacks other faiths, and even tries to convert people. In fact, there are but a few Xians I've met who believe there are many paths to god. in the majority of cases they believe they hold the only truth and the rest of us are going to "hell" that's where the real conflict between religions start
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My mother is a very strong Christian and she does not agree with paganism. I'm still young, but I've been threatened out of my own home numerous times because she sees me as Satan worshipping and demonic.
She refuses to see the similarties between each of our religions or aknowledge the respectable aspects of paganism.
It really is sad that in most cases the religions simply cannot seem to coincide peacefully.
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To this if it helps i would say try practicing your religion outside where we are closes to the divine. Also go to your local pagan store some will have a room to talk, pray or practice. Its hard to get people to understand when they are only seeing one way. I do not believe any ''one'' religion is wrong as long as you believe in a god and/or goddess and love them with all your heart. Just be respectful to your mothers wishes and practice your religion some where else. Someday you will have your own home and place of worship and she will have to respect your home and personal wishes. we all have the right to choose our own paths in life, just do it respectfully and the divine will guide you through your journey.
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I grew up in a strick Catholic family that would disown family members if they became even lutheran. So you see I can't come out of the broom closet and still have a family. What makes me sick is how much the two religions are a like.
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The problem is the three big religions all believe that their way is the true and ONLY way to heaven. The ironic part is they all ideally worship the same God, they even recognize the same prophets and teachers, but still they see themselves as different and separate. Now if these three religions cannot find a middle ground and try to see eye to eye, that certainly doesn't bode well for religions OUTSIDE of these big three. Until the Christians, Jews and Muslims can fix their differences and come together in peace, Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus and all other religious faiths will NEVER be "right". It's going to take many more years before the realization finally hits everyone that the one Divine God/dess is infinitely beyond just one religion. Until that time we continue to worship alone or in small groups just as "witches" have for centuries. Blessed be all.
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Wow! Having been an "Xian" for many years I can understand your plight. I know how dogmatic and broken this religion, that speaks of having access to a love that surpasses undertanding, can be. It makes me sad. I will try to pray that your mother will show you real Spirit-inspired love and understanding and embrace you for who you are.
Unfortunately too many Xians turn to dogma and fear, and skip the love, patience, gentleness, kindness etc. So sad. I guess I'm one of those rarities who really believes that those who seek find, who knock have the door opened and God is big enough to embrace all people's varied ways of searching a.k.a religion.(and yes, I agree with Kardia the Holy Spirit is "she" not "it")
I enjoy this blog and my own path is enriched from what I learn from your paths. Peace.
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I am currently a Christian who is starting to look seriously at other religions and other paths. What I have found so far, is that Wicca seems to say all of the things that I already believe (and yes, I believe them as a Christian.) I do find the idea that there is only one way to find the divine to be ludicrous, and just to point out, I would say only half of my current church really believes that; however, the half that does is a very loud group. I am finding more and more, that with Christianity, I have to constantly translate what is being said, to what I believe. Because while I can believe in Jesus' teachings, I can't always believe in the churches teachings. I am finding in Wicca, there is a lot less translating that needs to be done. We are one, the kingdom of Heaven is Now, we just have to open ourselves to it. Thank you for this discussion.
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I come from a christian family. My mother believes I'm going to hell and she doesn't kick me out bc I already live out. My husband is lutheran. And they're super conservative. I never felt comfortable at any church I went to(and my mother took me to many trying to get me to like one) ant when I was 17 I bought my first wicca book. She threw it away as soon as she got a chance. I'm afraid that'll happen with my husband so I don't even dare to buy books that will help me explore beyond what I already know. I agree that the big three religions are to "stubborn" (for lack of a better word) to accept any other faith but I also believe that they are not going to accept anything else but their religion as acceptable. It's sad bc I'm stuck not being able to learn as I would if I was free from that prejudice. Hopefully I can convince my husband to accept me as I am and not as an abomination when I gather the courage to tell him that I am not a christian.
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Reading these blogs, my husband and I are deeply moved and touched. We too were brought up in religious homes. He a catholic and I, Xtian. We both knew that there was more to it than what we were being taught. We both feel blessed that when we met, we found that we were on similar spiritual paths. Together, we have been able to grow and explore the different paths to find what is right for us. We have learned that we are not so different from the big 3 religions, but then again we are. We are in the sense that we know that our path is not the only one true path and we understand that what may be right for one may not be for another. We don't push our beliefs on anyone, but rather share if asked. We don't try to convert or change anyone's way of thinking, but rather help others to open their minds and hearts to understand that there is more out there then they have been previously taught.
We firmly believe in educating people about Paganism, what it really is about and about the different paths that fall under that umbrella term. Helping them to see that it is about a spirituality.
Our hearts reach out to all of you that are in situations that prevent you from growing and being who and what you are wholeheartedly. We have both been there.
We pray for you that you find the strength you need to make it. Though you may need to practice in the dark, if you stay true to your path and allow the Divine love to flow through, your light will shine brightly.
Live your life full of integrity, and allow the love, light, tolerence and openess to shine through.
You can't control what people think, only how you react to the situations around you.
With much love and many blessings,
Essence
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Good Evening, Essence.
Well said!! Everyone needs to set a good example. Love, kindness and tolerance is the key. That is what people will see and want.
Please keep your wonderful light shining!
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i have been getting harrassed by "christians" alot in the past few days about being a wiccan. i was wondering if you could email me a copy of your blog soi could show it to them? i would grettly appreciate it. blessed be
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Some people do not believe in the same things that they believe in, therefore they think that we are evil. I had a problem with a relative of mine over my religious beliefs. After I had informed her that Catholicism & Paganism were at one time one religion, she kind of backed off. Everyone has different views of religion, I feel that as long as we are not judging others, then God will not judge us. You are in my prayers. Blessed be!
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This is my first response. I was happy to read from others who were raised as I was, (Roman Catholic, who married and raised my kids Lutherans); then divorced, remarried, and was abused by a man who had been a lutheran chaplain minister, to boot. He did everything against his religious beliefs, and I was very much brainwashed and hurt before he died. Afterward I fell in love with a pagan man who refused to believe I could really be pagan because of my strong religious background. It may sound stupid, but when my mom died, I hung a cross above my door in mourning as a final way for me to exorcise the guy who died out of my house, but it freaked my pagan boyfriend. He and his mom shunned me and he moved out when I had a car accident and he won't see or talk to me. I don't understand shunning but that's what happened. If anyone can tell me what happened and when this is over, please help. Any words would help. His mom hated me from day one, and I've done everything I can. Is this normal? I had some really heavy witchcraft placed on me after he left.
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Research into ancient writings, and original "scripture" will show you that when you take out the changes that were made by the second "christianity", {which also kept hidden from other humans, the word for 1500 years, and trod on any attempts to bring it out to everyone} {the crusades, etc.} {the original {Jesus's teachings} died with the desciples}, such as the title Elohim {which is a plural word} changed to a single terminology, the trinity which for centuries had stood for father, mother and "life/spirit", to the changes in the "commandments" like from murder to kill, you will see that we are all saying the same things just in our own words.
The obvious changes in the "holy bible" can be verified easily with the hebrew/greek dictionary/chaldee.
EVERYONE has the inherent abilities to communicate with ALL of nature, etc., it is HUMAN teachings that tell us it is wicked or whatever evil. If we truly listen, our souls tell us what is true and pure and what is not. Unfortunately we are also human, which gives rise to denial of truths, because someone else says it is or isn't so,{we are supposed to be asking "GOD"/creator, not other humans anyway}, and to sometimes stay blind to TRUTH out of fear or ignorance or guilt. If we all fought that fear or denial we would see that our only differences are those WE create, Not the father/mother/creator/architect of our physical and spiritual bodies.
How could that not bring peace to our lives, the earth and our "holy" spirits??
Some of us won't know until we go "home" but it is easy while we are here to see if you really want to.
We all, religions and/or people, have some things correct and other things not so correct. NONE of us would get a 100% grade. That's why we are always in "school". It can take a while for us to really learn, sometimes just because we don't like to listen. There has to be self responsibility in everything.
Peace and love to all.
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I just wanted to add, that Christians do indeed speak to angels, but generally have the view that we speak to "fallen" angels. They also refer to the world of the fey as the "fallen world". They seem to be deluded that we are somehow communicating with "fallen" entities. This would indeed make them wary of us and our religion. This belief is tightly woven into their belief system. I find that trying to understand them or to convince them that we are doing nothing wrong would simply backfire on the unsuspecting pagan. They can't help it. It is part of them.
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i used to dabble in some of the ideas of wicca when i was younger. i was raised a Christian but feel that there is too much prejudice. i knew what i believed and just wanted to check out wicca for some education on other religions, but as i was reading about it, realized that it incorporated everything i believe in. yes im young, and cant really come out of the "broom closet"...in fact its hard to even find information about wicca. BUT my last month of searching has led me to love it and it has brought a great sense of peace to my life.
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I think I was born a witch. I have certainly considered myself one since the age of 14. I have no interest in Christianity or people trying to make out that we are all one faith. My Craft also has little to do with Gardner or classes in Wicca! The whole reason I became a witch all those years ago, was because it was Not Christian! I didn't want anyting to do with a religion that made me inferior by being born a woman. If you are now pandering and snivelling around Christians, carry on! This old Hedge will plough her own furrow, like she always has! Big Mistake by you lot though!
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i'm a very open minded person and i completely agree with you about tollerance. we only live one time in THIS life and i don't think that other people cloud over or try to change the way that anyone thinks, there's no room to grow in the shade and who is anyone to interfer with another persons beliefs ya know its not right, not at all. you cant make someone respect something though, and by trying "explain to open someones eyes" youre really doing the same thing as them, they wanna open your eyes too.. so im personally just letting people live their lives and as the wiccans say "as ye harm none do what ye will" but what i do have to disagree with you on is when you say pagan you generalize it. i'm pagan, i pray to a god or goddess, i listen to myself and follow my instincts. many people of the church go against their own instinct to follow what the bible says, what they believe is to be the words from the son of god. which contradicts my beliefs and in turn contradicts what you said. i understand the direction youre going and its a good one. your overall idea is in my opinion correct, we are the same. we all believe in something, may not be the same, but its something and if people set aside their beliefs then yes, they would see what you are saying is true.
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One thing I don't think people take into account (even the author of this passage) is that Pagan does not stop at Wicca. Pagan also includes those who follow early religions such as Greek, Roman, Norse, Germanic, and Egyptian mythology. I am a pagan who follows the Greek gods. For the 30,000 to 40,000 years that humans have been following relgions and such, Christianity and the other Abrahamic faiths have been around for about 2% of that time. However, all of the religions that I stated previously have been around for much longer. And despite what science has taught us, part of me still thinks that Apollo drives the sun across the sky each morning and Zeus still sends down every lightning bolt seen. Say what you want, but that's what I believe
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The Christian religion does not recognize female but only male. They have a male god, and male religion. Females are subservient to males. God...male, Jesus...male. If a woman wants to know anything ask the man at home. What if he is dumb as an ox? I can not respect any religion that treats females like this.
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I don't know you but share greatly in everything you have said. You spoke my feelings. Both Pagans and Christians will all finally one day walk into the blinding light of love. Peace, Pete
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Just a few thoughts from a Bible-believing, born-again Christian.
First, let me say (and it probably should go without saying) that the actions of Christians are not equated with the Person of Christ. Which us, Christian or not, can say we live perfectly and without error? A core concept in Paganism is "Harm no one" but no Wiccan is going to claim perfection in that.
Therefore, Christianity is not to be judge merely on the behavior of Christians, but rather on the Person and teaching of Christ.
Concerning the original text (original languages) of the Bible being Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, there are Masculine and Feminine forms in these languages. Rather than look to the languages of the Bible to see if there is masculine and feminine qualities to God, look to the creation of mankind. Genesis 1:26a-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...so God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE AND FEMALE created he them."
God is neither male nor female as He is a Spirit. When He made mankind in His image, He made them male and female. Both men and women bear the image of God, His likeness, and if so, then God possess the qualities of the masculine and feminine. i.e strength, power - masculine. nurture, fruitfulness, beauty, et. - feminine.
Concerning the angels of God, perhaps there are Christians who seek the help from angels, but they ought not. Colossians 2:8 chides those who took delight in a false humility and "worshipping of angels" as intruding into things he has not seen being vainly puffed up in his fleshly mind.
To seek Divine help by the aid of angels, either by praying to them or hoping in them, is a form of worship. We can see this in the veneration of images, invoking saints or angels et in the Roman Catholic church.
Angels are real and do aid believers. But true Christians do not go to angels for help. Angels are God's ministers sent by Him to do His will in aid and protection of these who are to inherit eternal life. I as a Christian am greatful to God for His help. But as His son, I am free to come to Him directly, as the Bible teaches..to the very throne of grace, and speak directly to God the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
If you want to learn more about angels and the Bible, look at the book of Hebrews, especially the first 2 chapters.
In Christ,
Fivesolas
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The truth here is undisputable. It is synonymous to Mohamed and Jesus as regards koran and bible
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I just wanted to make two comments: one concerning the trinity, the other about male and female aspects.
As a Christian, I don't believe in the trinity. This is a theological discussion established into the church at the "Council of Nicea" in 325 AD. Nowhere in the Bible will you find that God is associated with 3. On the other hand, in both the Bible and the Quran, God is ONE! Both the Nestorians and the Monophylsites strongly rejected this claim of 3 gods in 1 god. I believe that it is this that has mainly encouraged many Christians into the practice of "Jesus Adultery". This is similar to "Krishna Adultery". Both groups are incredibly narrow minded and argumentative when I try to explain to them that that God can't be a person (even though Gods Holy Spirit can manifest inside a person). John 4:24: " God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." God bless all the pagans who practice this much more than most Christians - Blessed be!!!
The other comment I wanted to make is about Male and Female aspects. As someone commented earlier, God is neither male or female, Yin or Yang. The creator cannot be creation and creation has its male and female aspects. Science has proven this to be true. The famous physicist, Bohr, who helped to develope Quantum Physics, has a Yin/Yang symbol on his grave stone!
In the beginning of humanity, deities were metaphors that promoted understanding. Later on, people began to worship these metaphors as real beings. And this begat idol worship. When Native Americans speak of 'Sky Father' and 'Earth Mother', these are metaphors which convey understanding, but are not true in the literal sense.
When we use these Deities from many cultures in the proper manner, they can evoke a sense of sacredness and awe of God and his awesome universe.
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I would like to suggest a word from the late Robert Anton Wilson, 'sumbunall", a short hand for "some but not all". As in, sumbunall Christians believe in the Trinity, and sumbunall Wiccans practice the Great Rite.
There are a lot of assertions and broad sweeping statements here, which does no one any good.
Orthodox Christian theology holds that Christ was and is The One incarnated. This is not equivalent to the incarnation of Visnhu in various guises. This is not equivalent to Gods like Horus, one deity out of a large Pantheon. It is the "ONE true power" as Kardia speaks BUT ALSO fully human. There is a big difference here in Christian incarnational theology and that of pagan theology.
Now, I am not saying I accept this view, or that one is true and the other false. But we need to really understand the differences if (a) we are to consciously choose for ourselves our path, and (b) be able to dialogue well with other Christians and Pagans.
We also need to understand that Christians are commanded by the Great Commission to profess their faith and Evangelize. This is a sacred duty and every bit as real, important and profound as a Drawing Down is to sumbunall Wiccans. We may not like this, but if we are engage with Christians we have to respect where they are coming from.
On the Christian side, we need to recognise and respect that Wicca is an enlightenment based faith embracing modernity and its values. Wiccans have no concept of Salvation and no concept of scriptural Revelation. Christian dialogue based on scripture is offensive to many Wiccans as it assumes they place the same value on scripture as Revelation as Christians do, and is therefore imposing an alien reality upon them.
Additionally, coming from a soteriological point of view is meaningless. Salvation simply does not exist for Wiccans, as the faith is at roots monist, where there is no break between utmost divinity and humanity. Many Wiccans are deeply offended by evangelistic approaches. They find the root assumption of most evangelists that Christianity is a clearer truth than their own faith problematic to say the least. Wiccan theology holds that divinity is found fully within each human and each human is both blessed by their existence and can by their own efforts know divinity. This is a sacred conception. It is every bit as solid, real, sacred and precious to Wiccans as Christ is to Christians.
Thanks
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Personally i am a catholic and i believe in my religion, no others, but i do respect other religions and beliefs and do not try to say they are wrong. But with most people the issue is that they think they religion is the only religion in their life and feel every other religion is wrong and against their beliefs, so yes there are similarities and differences, but i don't think people should be comparing them or speaking badly about them. It is ones choice to believe what they want and that is that leave them alone to believe what they want. There are so many conflicts between religions but why?? why is it your business what someone else believes? that is what confuses me most, if everyone just stayed out of each others business and kept to themselves, things would be a lot easier haha but seriously there is nothing wrong with reliving in something you feel is right, but there is also nothing wrong with someone believing different, so people need to calm down and keep to themselves i mean seriously, Wiccans are demon praising? that's just a bunch of crap i mean I'm catholic and i am not that stupid, but even if they were who the hell cares? how does it affect you and what your doing just leave them alone. You may disagree with me but that is my opinion, and i am only 14.
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I am a mormon and i want to do wiccan things. i do not want to change religions but is this ok for me to believe- sorta- in wiccan?
please answer me i am scared, and only a girl.
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hi I am Yvonne & was raised mormon & now am following the path of the goddess I understand how you might feel but the wholeness that comes from learning who you are as a woman is so wonderful
blessed be yvonne
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